I have written an article about the basic structure of AKB48 and its exploitative method for objectifying young women for public entertainment. Since then, I have created a Facebook group (http://www.facebook.com/groups/222928411085497) and also a Facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Anti-AKB48-Group-or-Against-the-Commoditization-of-Women-in-Japan/144645835614669) promoting petitions against AKB48 and its related groups in hopes that people outside Japan will see how messed up the situation is and many will come to be aware of what has been happening to the Japanese girls in Japanese pop-culture. This time, I am writing some analysis of songs and their performances for the songs in order to see whether what I am saying about this group’s exploitative method is adequate or not. The songs I will treat here are three: Heavy Rotation (as has been briefly discussed in my previous posting), Seifuku ga Jama wo Suru (The School Uniform Is Getting in the Way), and Kuchi Utsushi no Chocolate (Mouth-to-Mouth Chocolate). In treating these songs, I would particularly emphasize the fact that many of the girls involved in these songs as well as in the performances are under 18 – one of them is 14 years old!
First of all, the above is the song, Heavy Rotation, with the English subtitles. This problem with this song is not with the lyrics but rather with its promotional video. The lyrics, though utterly without significance and somewhat incomprehensible, suggests longing for love and adolescent excitement of being in love. The imagery that comes with it, however, does not seem to correspond to the lyrics at all. In fact, no matter how hard you try to make sense out of it, it is impossible to see the artistic significance of depictions of girls kissing each other in underwear, taking a bath with each other, eating sugar and sweets while seemingly helplessly lying on the table (2:20 in). Eating of jello with cherries (2:30, 2:50) is suggestive enough, but what happens at 2:40 in is extremely explicit. One cannot help wondering how she has eaten her jello to get it on all over her face, as if her face is covered with sticky liquid. The number of underaged girls performing in this promotional video is 4: Matsui Jurina (13); Ono Erena (16); Maya Watanabe (16) and Miho Miyazaki (17).
This is the next song we are looking into – it’s called Moth-to-Mouth Chocolate. Asides from its sexually charged title and background, I have absolutely no idea what this song is supposed to be about. The song begins with the phrase, ‘Feed me chocolate mouth to mouth… stuff it in there forcefully,’ and ends with ‘this chocolate is bittersweet, your poison tastes so good, it would be a waste to close my eyes.’ According to one fan site on the Internet (1), the song is teemed with double-meanings in the lyrics on purpose, and the producer/songwriter ,Yasushi Akimoto, is intending this to have a sexual meaning. ‘Betty Blue’ that appears in the lyrics (‘just like Betty Blue, I am a cute girl’) is a character in French movie who “yearns for a better life and quit her last job as a waitress because she was being sexually harassed by her boss.” (2) Again from this same fan website, I found some detailed analysis of the lyrics (what surprises me is that this blogger seems to love this song precisely because of the reason I find it inappropriate). I will let this blogger speak for himself here.
“these lyrics are flawless in challenging a theme as delicate as the boldness of teenage and the first sexual fantasies. Teenage girls have as many of them as anyone else, and the chances of it being a daring high school girl’s fantasy is very high.”
“from the second verse: “Even if I spill my cocoa cup / And it makes a stain on my uniform / I don’t care about it”. The imagery is rather simple, but subtle: the stain on her school uniform means a stain on her “pureness” (let’s not forget that high school girls are often idolized as a symbol of pureness).”
“I love it nonetheless. If possible, I love it even more for the lack of hypocrisy and the tongue-in-cheek tone of the whole song.”
The reason why this blogger likes the song is because he thinks it lacks hypocrisy amongst other things. This person is clearly without education. The three girls singing and performing in this song are all underaged at the time of the live event: Aika Ota (14); Yuki Kashiwagi (17) and Natsumi Harajima (16).
This is the last song, ‘Seifuku ga Jama wo Suru (The School Uniform Is Getting in the Way). The approach is different from the other two songs, which focused on more or less ‘innocence’ and ‘fantasy’. This song speaks of ‘many ways of love’ suggesting that it is okay to have an unconventional relationship, i.e. teenage prostitution. Now teenage prostitution is a huge problem in Japan, especially in Tokyo area – Shibuya Ward – which is, incidentally, the same place mentioned in the song. The girls would often not go home and hang out at the game centers until late in the evening, and they go to Karaoke, and when their money runs out, they go home. That’s the standard patterns of high school girls in a big city in Japan. How do they get money? That’s where the ‘compensated dating’ comes in. It’s essentially the same thing as prostitution, but with this, girls make the phone call to a call center or some place like that and leave a message. A guy calls back, and the girl decides how much they will charge, and the rest is up to the guys. Naturally, these girls are normally under 18. In Tokyo city, I saw on the news that girls as young as 12 years old would even leave messages to have sex. (For those who are interested in the info, visit wikipedia page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjo_kōsai)
The lyrics, ‘I want to be loved freely, take me somewhere, to a world I don’t know,’ sounds suspiciously echoing the those girls curiosity in sexuality. The immediately following lyrics ‘don’t look at me like that, I am just a high school girl’ and ‘I don’t care if anybody is looking at us, kiss me,’ are way too obvious to be defended otherwise. Just after saying ‘you can do whatever you like, I want to experience adult pleasure,’ the phrase continues, ‘even if something (bad) happens, it will all work out.’ This is not just a suggestion, but a commendation to the high school girls out there who are curious but do not have the guts to make the step to sleep with someone for money. Towards the end, the image shows of a girls who is allegedly on her way to meet a stranger for sex. She waits in the tunnel, where people are not around. A guy comes, and asks her if she is who he thinks she is, to which she nods. Then, the shot changes to the morning. She looks still the same, somewhat worried, and perhaps regret, but at the very end, the music video ends with her smile, justifying everything that had happened to her, while at the same time reassuring those girls out there that ‘it’s okay’ to do it – as if to say, ‘every girl thinks about it, worries about it, and does it; then she comes out happy.’ The underaged girls in this song are 8 in number: Erena Ono (13); Yuka Matsuda (14); Tomomi Itano (15); Atsuko Maeda (15); Minami Mineguchi (14); Minami Takahashi (15); Tomomi Kasai (16); Sae Miyazawa (16).
Finally, as you can see from the above lyrics, their songs have no coherence in conveying messages. One song tells you how love can be exciting and wonderful, while another tells you there are different ways of love and the love in the form of ‘compensated dating’ is totally acceptable, while yet another sings about being dirty equals teenageness that you shouldn’t miss while you are young. Any real artists would probably concur with me in saying that art is the expression of the artists themselves, and such that they should not contradict with their works if they wanted to produce something meaningful or even least artistic. Expressing contrary opinions among the works may occur, but as long as it reflects the artists’ internal conflicts or when the artists are trying to make a statement with the intended contradiction/contrary. They cannot go back and forth, affirming love on one day and demoralizing it the next day, and go back to adoring love again the day after, end so on. For that is truly a mark of business-mindedness, and not something a true artist would do. For conveyance of messages must cohere internally in the works of the artists, or else the messages are lost.
Again, please join the Facebook Group (http://www.facebook.com/groups/222928411085497) or page (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Anti-AKB48-Group-or-Against-the-Commoditization-of-Women-in-Japan/144645835614669) I have created to raise awareness and let people in Japan know that we the International community do not tolerate this.
Sources cited:
1.http://akb48songs.blogspot.com/2010/11/team-b-kuchi-utsushi-no-chocolate.html
Yeah heaven forbid women sing about sexuality. I mean, we all know that women are completely sexless creatures who should only be impregnated in the name of procreation.
And about the girls being “too young”, you clearly are very out of touch with the sexuality of young people today. I can tell you that when puberty hits, it hits, no matter what any moral or law says.
The producer of the “Heavy Rotation” music video was a woman, and she had free reigns to do whatever she wanted. She explains in an interview: «In general high school students wear sexy lingerie and show it to each other in the school. I explained my concept of how the lingerie was linked to the innocence and good of AKB48. They comfortably understood my concept and willingly accepted to wear lingerie.» Says Yasushi Akimoto, the group’s producer: «I mean, if the director were male, AKB48 might feel unpleasant and refuse to do that. AKB48 completely trusted Ms. Ninagawa, so there was no distrust. »
@ greenlight: So, by having a woman tell them to do it, that makes it alright? I would imagine the studio producers probably felt they might be going a little too far, so they told a puppet what to tell the girls. The girls who are young, and want to be famous and loved. Make no mistake, these women are being exploited. Personally, I don’t blame the fans. The mainstream favouring public, especially the Japanese one, is a brainwashed creature. My criticism lies on the puppetmasters.
To Greenlight, I am with the opinion of Anon and Slou here – with Anon in that you are missing my point exactly in the way Anon described, and with both Anon and Slou in that a female director or producer doesn’t make it right. In fact, it is more canning to use a female producer (or especially, as you say, Greenlight, the female producer in her own right decided to do what she did), for that makes it easier to control those girls. Would it be more reassuring to be told by someone with the same gender, ‘I am a woman too, and I know what is best for you (even if that involves you to sing and dance half-naked in front of the general public)’ – of course she does, it’s not her who has to do it. Besides, by the same token, because older women are sexual beings as well, why not they do it by themselves? Clearly, the young and ignorant are being exploited here without a doubt. Also if this female producer is speaking on her own behalf in this interview, she is clearly not making much sense here – this is what she says according to you: “In general high school students wear sexy lingerie and show it to each other in the school. I explained my concept of how the lingerie was linked to the innocence and good of AKB48.” What part of ‘wearing sexy lingerie and showing it to each other’ constitute as innocence? Lingerie is not just clothes that you wear to go to bed, it is designed to be not innocent. This is an excerption from a Wikipedia entry on ‘Lingerie’: “it is applied specifically to those undergarments designed to be visually appealing or erotic.” Also Yasushi Akimoto’s comment is neither reassuring nor convincing: “I mean, if the director were male, AKB48 might feel unpleasant and refuse to do that. AKB48 completely trusted Ms. Ninagawa, so there was no distrust.” The very fact that these girls would feel uncomfortable and refuse if there was a male presence (or the director were male) affirms my conviction that these girls would not have done what they did, had the director were male. Why is that, do you think? Because it’s not something they feel comfortable with. And why would you think any girls who would refuse to perform under the male presence would want to show themselves wearing lingerie to the entire public?
However, I shall have to thank you, for you have revealed some of the inner logic, or lack thereof, with AKB48’s staffs and producers, making us convinced that there are more reasons why these groups should be, at least, kept an eye on under ethical committees.
Pop music is hardly a vehicle for young women to express their own sexuality. Pop groups like this are put together, the songs written and choreographed for them, etc. And I’ve not doubt the women in this group consented, they are probably getting rich.
I think many of the issues you touch on in your comment may be missing Issei’s point. I don’t think he is saying that 14 or 17 year old girls don’t have sexuality, but that the media is exploiting the sexuality of young girls. Further, I could really care less is the director was male or female. Females participate in the exploitation if their own gender all of the time.
My concern is not with these girls themselves, but with the tiny box that “young women’s sexuality” is put in via pop culture, both American and Japanese.
Well done for identifying that people are exploited under capitalism. Do you also think that sex workers who enjoy their jobs are a “problem” because they are being exploited due to their economic situation? The AKB girls are being exploited far less then them, and they probably wouldn’t leave AKB48 even if they had the opportunity. Seriously, why is sex so terrible to commodify? Out of all the things that can be sold, why is it only sexuality that people like you find so problematic? You treat consumers like complete idiots who cannot tell a fantasy that they are being sold from reality. Let people have their fun – if it’s all consensual, it should be just fine, and if you’re thick enough to allow AKB48 to affect how you treat real women, then there was probably no hope for you anyway. How can your problems with this be anything but ideological?
Also, why must all art be internally consistent in order to be worthwhile to you? AKB48 is a idol pop group who will enjoy this brief spell of popularity and then fade away. They do not need an overarching grand narrative or coherent message. The messages they express, contradictory or not, are appropriate for them, and it is elitist and somewhat alarmist to call this the “degradation” of art. This kind of thing has existed for years in popular music. Being an AKB fan isn’t about following an artistic narrative, it’s about enjoying accessible, familiar messages separately, whether from the songs or from the merchandise.
Finally, I don’t understand how you can’t see the difference between a male director’s physical presence as he films the girls in lingerie and an impersonal male audience watching a video of the girls in lingerie. There is nothing strange about being comfortable with the latter and uncomfortable with the former.
I find it interesting that you feel the need to interpret the songs when you have already clearly identified their purpose – it’s suppose to be provocative and entertaining, specifically to men. But on the side it also deals with reality; this happens everywhere. Regardless it’s not outside the law and it’s popular merchandise which doesn’t conflict with Japan’s ethical standing.
Further, these girls are singers/actors. They portray an image for the sake of the song and that appeases to fans. If that image was reality, however, their popularity would sink as their innocent factor, their main selling point, goes down the gurgler.
Japan is Japan, and the Japanese, they have a good saying, “You are not Japanese so you can never understand.”
Hello, Rickee,
I am not quite sure what you want to say by “You are not Japanese so you can never understand.” Are you talking about yourself? In which case, since you are not Japanese (correct?), whatever you say is automatically underexperienced and unworthy of attention. Or are you, for some unknown reason, assuming that I am not a Japanese? Because I am Japanese, so by your reasoning, by virtue of my being Japanese makes my argument stronger and ‘that which understands Japanese culture’ than yours… There are other points I don’t agree with – or that I think you are generalizing the issue to the point that no one can criticize a particular culture without referring to all others – like when you say ‘these girls are singers/actors’… I mean, are they? What makes you an actor/singer? Whoever sings? Then everyone is a singer. What makes you an actor? Whoever performs whatever is being told? Well, then you can easily legalize prostitution as an performance of art under the name of ‘actors’. Anyways, do you have any specific criticism, or just making general comments? In which case, let me say the same to you: I find it interesting that you feel the need to state general comments when anyone can have the same opinions without even reading this particular article. What you say is a general attitude of general public, to whom I’m trying to address so they can rethink about the opinions they have unreflectively (i.e. accepting norms as it is, or never question only because ‘it is done everywhere’) constructed throughout their life. In other words, you should have the opinions you stated before reading this article, but after reading my article, there should be more specific points of disagreement/criticism against my arguments with particular reasons rather than appealing to universals, showing that you have understood my argument.
“…continued from the last line”
I will have to finish this later – currently short on time. (Can you edit?)
I have to completely agree with isseicreekphilosophy. I think there are some things that the other commenters are overlooking.
First, whether you believe J-Pop to be a legitimate form of art matters not in this case. J-Pop has a huge following, a large part of which are children and teens. Thus, young boys, and more likely in this case, young girls idolize groups like AKB48. They aren’t called “Idols” without reason 😉 As such, they exact a huge amount of influence on these kids, just as with any celebrity or person commonly seen in the public eye. Thus, they should be held accountable for certain behavior, and especially the messages they choose to send out to their youthful audience. You might argue that, “Well, what if their target audience is older men?” Great, but does that then make all of their young fans collateral damage? Who are they singing for? These songs and their messages aren’t written for older men, are they?
This leads me to my second point which is that these girls are not talented, at least as far as singing goes. As has been pointed out, they do not write their own songs and they don’t even come up with the dances. They are quite poor at singing and acting – of course this is a matter of personal opinion but I’m willing to bet if you take away all the pretty costumes and beautiful faces and just listen to them that most would agree here. They are nothing more than pretty/cute faces told to sing and dance a certain way. Why should groups like that be idolized? Why are they considered singers/actors to begin with? It’s specifically because they are all pretty and cute that they are used/exploited in the J-Pop industry to make more money and give then more exposure than, say, a much more suited job like modeling would. Do we really want to have our children think it’s ok to not be able to sing so long as you are pretty and cute? I would hope most would agree that if you are a singer then you should at least be expected to sing well. We’ve all
seen what happens when this turns out not to be the case (e.g. Ashlee Simpson, Milli Vanilli). I’m not sure how one could argue that 48 girls singing in unison is deserving of their idol status in J-Pop. Catchy? Maybe. Good? No. Let them be models if they merely want to be cute. (I’ve heard arguments recently citing one reason for the growing popularity of K-Pop in Japan to be J-Pop’s increasing lack of substance and maturity. I’m sure AKB48 fits this argument perfectly but that’s for another discussion).
Additionally, some of you have argued the opinion that it’s ok for the lyrics to these songs to be sexually expressive. Yes, teenage girls and pubescent girls are curious about sex. I couldn’t agree with you more on this point and to say otherwise would be to completely ignore common sense and biology. But, I want to make a very important distinction. It’s different to write lyrics about sexual curiosity and first love than it is to write lyrics about justified prostitution. Even promoting promiscuity is a bit much, setting aside your own personal lifestyle preferences for a bit. Remember, some of these AKB girls are under 18 or were when these songs were first released! It’s one thing to talk about fantasy and to tell kids it’s ok to have certain thoughts and ideas. It most certainly is natural to think these things. But, when you try to justify acting on these ideas by stating that everyone does it, which they most certainly don’t, and you do so under the thinly veiled guile of “love,” then you have deceived this young generation and done so for something as simple as money.
Also, one glaringly obvious omission that Anon E. Mouse doesn’t seem to understand is that aside from the fact that selling your body for money is illegal, as it is in Japan and most other countries, it’s not ok to tell children that it is common and natural in your song lyrics. This is further complicated by the fact that there is a real problem with underage prostitution already. Why would anyone ever want to suggest to young girls that this is OK? It has nothing to do with job satisfaction or economic difficulties. Contrary to the “Sefugu ga Jama wo Suru“ song’s suggestion that it’s fine to sell your body for some spending money when you run out, it most certainly is not cool (remember, young audience)! But, going along with Anon E. Mouse’s “economic situation” idea, if your economic situation is so bad that you must turn your child to prostitution, or, provided you don’t have parents, are forced into underage prostitution yourself, this too is not cool! There are or should be social services put in place to prevent children from having to experience such things. If there aren’t any then that is an issue for another discussion and one that is in need of desperate attention. If you are a legal adult and engaging in illicit behavior such as prostitution then you still shouldn’t sing about it being ok if you say your audience is young women. That’s just poor taste. Also, despite Greenlight’s comment, this has nothing to do with forbidding women to sing about sexuality and has everything to do with it being a bad idea to glorify illegal activities like prostitution in your lyrics. Should they be censored? I don’t think so. But, they shouldn’t be idolized and people certainly need to stop all their bullshit defenses like saying they are artists or that they aren’t singing about these things. I’m willing to bet a great deal of you who are obsessed with them and spend countless hours justifying your obsession or defending this group do so merely for fear of being called a pervert for liking the pretty dancing girls. Man up!
I want to make it a point that I’m not some hard-up, ass-clinching, conservative, condemning, super Christian who has it out for sexuality or empowering women. Quite the opposite, in fact. I, like any other honest guy, love to look at pretty women. It’s natural. Men are much more affected by their visual sense (this is just generally speaking and I’d be happy to provide sources from peer reviewed research if anyone wants it). The fact is that women don’t dress in bikinis and lingerie for other women. They do it for men. You can argue about the reasons why women would do so, such as for the pleasure and positive feedback gained from making one’s significant other happy or perhaps from the power over the opposite sex that a woman’s body elicits (again, I’m speaking in generalities here, though I’m sure this could be extrapolated to lesbian couples as well). Whatever your reason may be, you will not find in your reasoning a justification involving something like Ms. Ninagawa said or what Greenlight agrees with. Girls don’t dress in lingerie to show each other and express their innocence. That’s absurd on the face of it. So, why put 48 girls, some of whom are underage, in bikinis and lingerie and have them jump up and down, lick food off another’s face, kiss, or bathe together? For men, of course! They are the ones who buy the collectable cards, DVDs, posters, etc. They are also the audience targeted by these ridiculous lyrics. When you throw in the fact that some of these girls are underage, it makes this scenario pretty creepy. Unfortunately, real girls are being led to believe this is what everyone wants or what is acceptable behavior.
As a disclaimer, and as has already been stated, I am a male. I live in Japan but have been here only a couple of years, but I’d say I have a better understanding of the culture than most. Also, I teach high school students, so I know first hand how groups like AKB48 affect the kids here. I’m always open to a good discussion.
lol just another example of the west expecting everything to be like it and no one else is allowed to have a culture, so if you hate this then you must hate rap and hip hop right? and all the bad thing they do in it
Again, a lot of people who read this seems to respond with their subjective feelings. You know that I am Japanese, right? What does the West have to do with it? And not all cultures are good to keep – if you think anything is allowed in so far as it is a culture, then you must also approve of female genital mutilation and stoning to death of a woman whose husband cheated in the Middle East… Cultures are by nature conservative – some are good but others are simply not in accord with the age period we are living in. Similarly, I take AKB48 phenomenon to be a form of sexism prevalent in Japanese culture/history throughout – resulting from the conservative attitudes of men towards ‘handling of’ women. Instead of ‘just’ criticizing, why don’t you say what you think? Do you think AKB48 is a good thing? Why is that?
I dont see how Implying that teenage prostitution is right reflects on Japanese culture. There is so much more to Japan and it’s culture then this.
Sure, I agree with you – but I am talking about “pop”-culture in Japan. Not Japanese culture in historical perspective as such.
I always feel sad when i see racists 😦 you sir are an embarrassment =\
wow, you know that I belong to the race I am criticizing, right?
yeah, which makes it all the more sad mate, why do people have so much hatred? it’s just heart breaking that humans as a whole at that way
I think you are digressing from the subject… In your reasoning, your criticizing me also counts as a hatred, and I will ask the same question to you. Why do you feel the need to disagree with people if you think people should just ‘be’ and be okay with it? You don’t make sense at all.
I personally hate Akb48 yet I have to take off my hats to Yasushi Akimoto for his clever marketing strategy to lead AKB48 to where they are now. Seeing AKB48 performing on stage makes me feel like its an “offence” to REAL theatrical actors/singers who practiced for years before they are professional enough to perform on stage. I can’t fathom why the hell do people want to buy tickets to watch some amateur young girls who can’t even sing to the standard and their dancings are so….ahem, amateur too (can’t find other words) I find it really lame, seriously =_=
You also hate Harry Pooter don’t you??? “that’s not literature”. Sometimes it’s about the audience having fun!! REAL theatrical actors may learn a thing or two about entertaining
if you don’t like them, don’t look at them.
you do know that doesn’t solve anything, right?
I think you a lousy enemy chooser. There is a lot in AKB about performing your best, ganbatte ne!. The girls are an example of hard work and focus. Yes, they show some skin, so what? it that sexual explotation? I mean, they SING, they don suck d***k, at least as far i know
sry about my english!
Article is ridiculous. United States is the largest exporter sexual operator with your music, movies, shopping and culture. Japan has its own culture. leave it alone, do not bother anyone and are happy
yea, if you think the US is the largest sexual operator, you do need to do some research. Also, I am not claiming it is bad *because* something is the largest sexual operator – I am simply saying, whether it is large or small, sexual exploitation is wrong. Besides, if you think you can cover up the sexual exploitation in the name of ‘culture’ – so many of you seem to argue that Japan has its own culture; well, are you also allowing Middle Eastern countries to execute women with stones because it is in their ‘culture’? African tribes to perform female genital mutilation because their culture has always been accepting it? People who make the same kind of argument as yours needs to read more about history and define what culture is and whether it is free from criticism by virtue of it being ‘culture’. I am sick of hearing uneducated arguments like yours. Please, people, do know what you are talking about before making this sort of casual comments, for your sake.
not to be an prick dude but, that Sounds like a weak liberal argument to me, “sexual exploitation of minors” shouldn’t you be looking at the Philippines and mexico sir? I honestly can’t see why you’re attacking AKB so much i’m going to go out on a limb here now and ask have you ever attacked morning musume? c-ute? or any other idol groups? if you haven’t than this is bias towards AKB imo America is a huge Sexual operator, but so is most of the world SEX sells! it’s sad it does but that’s life, but as for the biggest it wouldn’t be japan or US. and honestly bro i don’t think it matters to you if people know what they’re talking about or not cause you’re always right and won’t see any other opinion but yours if it doesn’t agree with you cheers mate~
again, please do some research and know what you are talking about. I have written on morning musume and other idols in Japan. Don’t just attack others without doing any research. Also, if you did do some research, you would immediately recognize that I greatly value opponents’ arguments when they make sense rationally. Yours and kinds of arguments you are making do not count as arguments but mere opinions. If you want to be heard, plaese make sense and make an argument and not an opinion. The reason why I am not talking about mexico and etc… is because I don’t know much about them. I am writing and talking about something that I know better. Do you need to be knowledgaeble on *everything* on earth to attack a particular aspect of culture? If there is a continuity, perhaps, but I don’t see any continuity of Japanese Idols with Mexican human trafficking – if you have an argument, let’s hear it, but if all you do is barking at people witb your own *opinions*, then you are just embarrassing yourself.
as i said before “I don’t think it matters to you if people know what they’re talking about or not cause you’re always right and won’t see any other opinion but yours if it doesn’t agree with you” sorry mate i’m through arguing with a sad loser that probably doesn’t have any friends and just sits behind his computer writing hateful shit cause he has no life 🙂 say what you will anyone that believes what you write is just as hopelessly foolish as anyone that believed Obama would fix america good day to you sir and I feel sorry for you I hope life can be kinder to you in the future might help if you actually didn’t act like an arrogant bastard was well cheers! 🙂
they’re kitschy, they’re catchy, they’re sexy. watching them is a guilty pleasure.
I see your point is that they’re underage. I am agree with the article. I’d like to hear your opinion about this: if only they were not underage, but rather young adults (18 or something) with similar depiction (innocent schoolgirls), what would you think about them? would you still oppose them because the depiction is somewhat ‘immoral’, or not?
Hi Seniberpikir,
Thank you for your comment – to be honest, I would still have problems with them, even if all the girls are over 18. I suppose my reasons are two in number, broadly speaking. One is that assembling ‘good-looking’ 48 girls who have no talent for what they do solely for the purpose of gaining popularity is contrary to what art should be aiming for. Second reason is that their sexual appeal can become beyond suggestive when they are no longer under 18, and unless one takes pornography a part of music, it is using ‘art’ as a disguise for sexually exploiting girls (and, usually or for the most part, not boys – I would of course have problems with sexually exploiting boys as well, but the degree in which it is done in popular culture is relatively innocuous that I don’t feel the need to pointing that out specifically as a problem in Japanese pop-culture, as it is sort of a given prerequisite for being public figures as well; please read my latest article ‘The Case of AKB48: Neo-Virus’ for more on this issue). In fact, there already is a sister group of AKB48, called SDN48, only consisting of older girls – I think every girl is above 20 years old. But what do they do? They sing more explicitly sexually and often appear in advertisement in naked, girls covering each other’s breast with each other’s hands, etc… The goal of making an art has completely been redefined or corrupted by the AKB48ers. It has become a sexual enterprise rather than an aesthetic entertainment. (Note: what is aesthetic in this context, i.e. popular art, has to be appealing to general public, i.e. free from gender specific, age, or ideally nationality – the fact that men seem to be the leading proponents of this singer group is an indication that the objective proportionality needed for what art should strive for is lacking.)
I have so much less problem with them if they appeared as porno stars from the beginning. My problem arises from the fact that they come under the disguise of ‘public figures’ only to promote sexual promiscuity and implant ideas into general public that ‘girls who behave like us are wanted by men’. In other words, whether they are over or under 18, what they are doing is pornography in disguise of singer groups. Now, men buy semi-nude pictures of AKB48 members without appearing to be buying pornography; girls at young age (like under 12 years old in school) are now wishing to be like AKB48 members because they are cute and sexy. Pornography has fused itself with the public role models, without their realizing it. That, I think, is the larger problem in this. I hope I answered your question – if not, please do write back to me.
Thank you for your response. FYI, there is also a sister group in my country (Indonesia) called JKT48. They aren’t as suggestive as AKB48, and rather cute than sexy, though. Our culture, which is quite traditional and religious, won’t permit that…yet.
I found an interesting comment that you haven’t respond yet here from Anon E. Mouse, which stating your problem is ideological. and by ‘ideological’, I think he meant ‘your attitude towards sexuality’. I would like to see your response on that comment, actually.
However, values changes over time. as sex becoming less taboo to talk about, sexuality is getting less private. therefore, the showing of several body parts such as thigh, belly, and cleavage is getting more acceptable. Our definition of ‘sexy’ is redefined over time, and mixed up with ‘cute’ (just as ‘sex’ is often mixed up with ‘love’). This means AKB48 is just a head of the curve. They are not the first nor the last, but maybe the most blatant and obvious.
As for the redefinition or ‘corruption’ goal of making art, it is a debatable subject. Being an art student, I can even say the whole popular culture is guilty for ‘corrupting’ the art. Also, it cannot be separated with capitalism which commodifies literally everything. Being commodified, art has been downgraded and become market-oriented, rather than ‘art for the art’s sake’, like the credo of modern art. Then again, popular culture also give birth to many good pieces of art and music, and deserves its own place and discourse in the society.
Now, let’s face it. People love sex. Sexuality sells. The merging of sexual promiscuity and popular culture is not strange thing. Elvis’ pelvic thrust is just as shallow and suggestive as AKB48’s lingeries. With the freedom of expression, people could and would express what they want. Values like morality, decency, and even aesthetics, is deconstructed over time along with it. Limiting the possibilities of ‘art’ means limiting the freedom of expression. I think this is one dilemma of our (post)modern, global, westernized society.
Our best possible option to against it is by distinguishing between art and pornography, using minimum age limitations. However, this has been proven ineffective in many things. How many of us follow the age rating in video games? How many underage kids drink alcoholic drinks? In artistic and visual culture fields, the attempt to control it is even more difficult because the meaning of the word ‘sexy’, ‘suggestive’, and many other sex-related words are very much ambiguous and biased. Their meaning can be stretched and disguised easily using Semiotics. People in visual arts fields know how do it, and they do it good. You see their works everyday.
Hello Seniberpikir,
You have raised some very important issues in your response. I agree with you that some of my phrases are ambiguous – such as ‘art’, ‘corruption (of art)’ ‘capitalism’ and in what degree merging of sex and art is ‘acceptable’, etc… These topics deserve separate articles themselves. I have written another article on AKB48 which deals with all these issues – have you read it yet? Rather than my going rambling about these concepts here in response, I’d like to direct you to this article and see if you agree with my definitions. https://isseicreekphilosophy.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/the-case-of-akb48-neo-virus/
I will answer what I haven’t dealt with in any of my articles that you asked here. Starting with Anon E. Mouse’s comment; I thought he meant ‘unrealistic’ by ‘ideological.’ In the same way Idealists strive for finding truth in ideas and spirituality rather than human world. If he just meant that, I would just respond by saying that ‘yea, but if you stop looking for ideal society just because you can’t achieve it, our future stops there too,’ as Simone de Beauvoir finely put it in her The Ethics of Ambiguity. Striving for ideal is not the same as giving up on reality, it’s the very essence of human activity – to better ourselves; there will be no perfect state, so this means we will be forever striving for even better ideals (now, ‘better’ is both ambiguous and equivocal, but I assume in this case, the context of my topic clearly states that by better society, I mean a society that does not sexualize underage girls and be okay with it). On the other hand, if by ‘ideological’ he meant as you said ‘my attitude towards women’, I am not quite sure what is meant by that. You think he is saying ‘my attitude towards women is ideological’? Or to quote his phrasing here: “How can your problems with this be anything but ideological[i.e. your attitude towards women]?” So he is saying my problem is internal in that I am upset because my attitude towards women, i.e., my internal principle, does not match the general standard in the society? If this is meant, then I would say that it’s not just my internal principle that women underage should not be sexually exploited but also it is the general standard of moral society.
You said, “values changes over time. as sex becoming less taboo to talk about, sexuality is getting less private. therefore, the showing of several body parts such as thigh, belly, and cleavage is getting more acceptable” – to which I disagree. Just because sexuality’s getting less private does not give rise to the general acceptance by the public. Because we see it so often – sexuality, that is – we as perpetuators believe that it’s becoming more acceptable, but it’s not. It’s just we see it more often, nothing else. And I don’t think our definition of sexy has been redefined – I think the definition has always been related or somewhat synonymous with ‘cute’ and ‘love’. It’s just that it hasn’t been visually broadcast in a nation-wide scale to tell us what we all know/feel. By broadcasting it, a problem arises – if we as individuals think what is cute or sexy is lovely, that’s fine – that’s what we always have done in the past. The only problem arises when that individual transgresses his/her boundary and becomes, sort of, a pervert. That would be a problem, yes, but that’s a moral problem between that individual (and possibly the object of his/her love). Just like any other moral issues, like stealing, etc. It’s not fine by itself, but it’s a problem that we as human beings have to deal with and think about over and over again as long as we live. But when such acts as sexualization of one particular group, i.e. women, or boys, etc… is depicted on TV or media, that’s a different story. It’s now not a problem individually dealt with, but sort of like ‘as long as we walk with everyone, we are not afraid’ type of group consciousness – that is, it is protected and secured by the ‘brand’ that is a group. Individuals do not have to think about whether his or her action is unwarranted, but only has to follow what others are doing, and feel justified in doing the same thing. Very much strongly rooted in Japanese culture (and I guess German culture, as well). What I am attacking is this aspect of thinking about what is right. If there are many people doing it, whatever ‘it’ is, then it’s accepted – type of mindset. This has become somewhat universal attitude all over the world since the globalization of the world community via Internet and media. It is an unfortunate yet inevitable consequence, but it doesn’t mean we all have to go along with it. We can still question, just as we used to. And we should keep questioning. Otherwise, the society becomes really ‘univocal’ not as a result of collective agreement like political revolutions, but simply as a non-conscious activity leading up to the state of inactivity. I believe that is a serious threat to humanity.
You speak of art as somewhat freely defined subject, and such that it should not be restricted. Certainly it is a modern interpretation of what art is – hence, this belongs to the idea of ‘post-moderns’; i.e., this was not always the norm. Whether the definition given by the post-modernism is correct or not set aside (since their definition is not to define what it is, which is internally contradicted ideology that can go ad infinitum, to me at least), the word ‘art’ comes from the idea in Greek word, ‘techne’ which means simply ‘skill’, ‘talent’ and ‘craft’. Such that it is and has always been aiming at arriving at some truth – not to distort truth. That would be contrary to what art is. AKB48 does aim for truth, and only aiming for making money. Now these are big claims, the answers to which you can find in my above-mentioned article, but briefly, I say AKB48 does not aim for truth because Akimoto himself said so in the interview with CNN early this year. He said that what they are singing is not what they think but what seems to be happening around them, which is just an interpretation and not truth. Second, the reason why I think there is a correlation between not speaking of truth and making money is that because it is a business model designed to make money and not to speak of the truth – popular culture itself exists in this strange area where business and art intertwine. Unless you make something that sells, you fail at business, but also unless you make money, you won’t be able to act as an artist. That usually, taken up by the money makers and rich producers, gets turned into vulgar entertainment, which makes no real distinction between what business is and what art is. So, basically, in approaching ALL popular culture (I don’t mean modern art or post-modern art in general, of course, but ALL “popular culture”) we must be carefully tread.
I agree with you that words like ‘sexy’ is very ambiguous in art field, and it is very difficult to use, as you put it: ” In artistic and visual culture fields, the attempt to control it is even more difficult because the meaning of the word ‘sexy’, ‘suggestive’, and many other sex-related words are very much ambiguous and biased. Their meaning can be stretched and disguised easily using Semiotics.”
That is why art is not a simple matter – and artists must always be able to distinguish those differences. Art is ethics. Because it treats values. Not anyone can be an artist – as is obvious from our past history. I think in our generation more than ever there are self-claimed ‘artists’ but they should be closely monitored. Artist is something that treats humanity and future. So I don’t think we should entrust our future to people like AKimono, just like we don’t entrust political sovereignty to comedians or street performers. We elect political leaders based on their talent – we should do the same with the art. In this sense, art is truly corrupted, I believe. I have so much respect for artists, but only because true artists know what to look for and they certainly don’t care about making money, whereas AKB48 survives on making money. There is a clear contrast there. Art is difficult. And the job for the artists to-day is to discern and distinguish these ambiguous terms as sexy and love. We can’t run away from that difficult talk and tell each other that we are artists. That’s not doing art, but playing art. There is a difference.
Lastly, you commented, “How many of us follow the age rating in video games? How many underage kids drink alcoholic drinks?” – I don’t believe this analogy applies here to the AKB48 phenomenon, because playing video games one should not be playing or kids drinking alcohol beverage are concerned only with those individuals – it doesn’t hurt others or change others value. If a kid drinks alcohol (on his own volition) and turns out alcoholics, he is to be blame. It is his own problem, and his own ethical problem. As long as these kids don’t start imposing us and others that young people should drink, there is no social problem here.
I hope this helps.
Issei
In Brasil a girl can have sex with an adult at age 15. so what, damned Brasilians??? Your golden age “18” has no biology on it, its a cultural thing you know
hey dude, i think before give any comments, better think first. i read all your comments and it just shows your emotion with lack of knowledge. just like a dog barking (-____-)
my comments rock dude, because i am right
There’s a shop that sells DVDs of 8yr olds in thongs ACROSS the street from the AKB theater. Why don’t you bitch about that too?
I would, but I need to focus on a topic. I can’t just talk about everything – that would make a disorderly and unorganized paper. Why don’t you write about that if you are physically close to that place and know so much about it?
An interesting article Issei! Some of your commentators are doing an excellent job of illustrating your point about the pervasiveness of sexism in popular culture — we have here the classic ‘big three’ of sexist arguments:
1) “the girls are having fun, so what’s the problem?” — the point here is that in all forms of domination there is a tendency on the side of the oppressed group to adopt the values of the oppressor. Some of those most vocally opposed to women’s suffrage were initially well-educated women. Jewish elders were vital informants to Eichmann during the holocaust. Oppression comes accompanied with a unique psychological infrastructure that isn’t at all what it appears to be at face value.
2) “it’s the modern world — so sexuality should be embraced” — yes, healthy sexual exploration should be universally accessible to young women around the world. If these girls were educated to expect mutually-respectful, satisfying sexual encounters, then their choice to perform (after a reasonable age) would have to be respected. Unfortunately, few women around the world receive this quality of education. It is fallacious to claim that these girls “choose” the roles they come to occupy — what kind of choice can it be if they do not know the alternative? We’re returned to problem #1. The story of women’s sexuality was not written by women.
3) “it isn’t ideal, but this is a global phenomenon — why can’t we just accept that it happens?” — this is the part where we like to believe that AKB48 isn’t part of a problem that we are directly involved in. Tacitly, though, we are allowing these phenomena to continue by calling them ‘acceptable’. We are saying a certain degree of pedophilia is acceptable, a certain degree of oppression is tolerable, as long as there is a cute enough face on the cover. Case and point, over 60% of sexual assault cases reported in Canada last year were women under the age of 17, and according to the same study about 90% of rape cases are never reported to police. And these numbers are rising. Now someone tell me with a straight face that this has no connection to the sexualization of the adolescent girl through the media.
Thanks again, Issei … important work you are doing here.
well, seems you’re a japanese hating japanese i feel sad when i see people like you? why don’t you just say in canada if you hate japan so much? don’t get me wrong you have just as much right to jerk off to jurina matsui as they have the right to perform like it or not free will is free will and some paper by a racist japanese guy isn’t going to change that, i really hope you have no family otherwise they must be so ashamed of you i hope they disown trash like you who’s always right about what he says, i get the feeling you’re anti a lot of things in the world? touche sir and go suck one of your many dicks 🙂
Kaito; are you stupid? This has nothing to do with ‘Japanese people’ per se – it has to do with the social attitudes like yours, and that’s what I’m criticizing. Read more books and get educated before making a vulgar comment like that.
hypocrite… and you shouldn’t assume just cause i told you things straight to the point that i haven’t read a lot of books or i’m not educated, just cause i do not think like you does not mean i’m not educated sir, one of these days you’re going to be condescending to the wrong person and you might learn some humility you can think you’re righteous all you want but at the end of the day most people just think you’re a sad lonely ass hole 🙂
Kaito – this is a response to the recent comment you left here. 1) Seriously, learn how to write an argument (and English). 2) what you are doing is called ‘ad hominem’ attacks; it’s when you are cornered in arguments or you don’t have any arguments but only hateful opinions and you can’t have it in your own way, you attack the person who is making the argument instead of the argument itself. You have not at all made any good points about my arguments nor did you propose any counterarguments but only hateful comments – should this continue, I will block you from this site – be careful what you write. As long as you are responding to what I am writing, I don’t care what you say, but your comments are absolutely indecent and irrelevant. Learn humility yourself, and stop talking about yourself (crusade and having your own way – it’s about you you are talking; like Republicans who hate homosexuals because they themselves are homosexuals, so they attack homosexuals).
well, you said the person who write this blog as a jerk because he hate japanese while he is a japanese himself.
but you are just the same, right kaito tajima? you hate your fellow japanese while you are japanese yourself; you also write in english. why don’t you write in japanese since both of you are japanese?
or maybe this person is just someone who are not japanese who just want to write a provocative comment
Everywhere around the world lyrics are becoming more and more sexual and explicit. AKB48 is soooo light compared to the stuff we hear here in Argentina… Leave the girls dancing with skirts alone, thay are not hurting anyone, not them , noy anybody else
I just saw the music video of Aitakatta, which you didn’t mention in this post (maybe it wasn’t around by that time). Compared to Heavy Rotation and Seifuku ga Jama wo Suru, it’s much less promiscuous. I can say that it’s genuinely cute. I’m starting to see them in a better light.
Lol…you never mentioned any of their other 200+ songs including song for tsunami victims…songs adressing suicide and bullying… etc-__-
Of course I didn’t – that’s not my point. I don’t deny that they are doing things that are socially commendable. But just because they are doing something good doesn’t justify what a tremendously negative effect they may have upon us. Just to make an extreme case example (since this type of argument you employ don’t seem to cease), in Nazism, Hitler was a great leader to the nation (or to non Jewish people, etc) – he was uniquely green and environmentally conscious, which was try rare in that period. Stalin too was the only government that allowed complete political equality to women, which was unprecedented at that time. But what they did was extremely bad – the fact that Hitler cared about environment or Stalin offered equal education for women then does not AT ALL justify or reduce any negative actions they did. So, please stop saying ‘Oh, but AKB48 did a nice thing to this man’ or ‘they are very friendly to the fans’ or ‘they helped so much to raise money at this time or at that time’ – okay sure – I never denied that. I am aware that they do have contributed economically and socially, but that’s not the point.
just stop talking you’re on a hate crusade against them you will deny anything good they good in your quest for absolute control, you have to have it your way or else. but then again keep going your pointless crusade is amusing and i’ll be the first to kick you when you’re down you arrogant know it all please learn so humility you poor poor man ^^;; you’re a bit sick also comparing stalin and hitler to akb did you mother drop you on your head as a child?
Tremendous negative effect? wtf? the deal weapons? they sell cocaine? come on dude
Wow just wow, so a girl who is 15 and decides for herself what she wants, then it’s wrong? Girls are old enough to decide by the age of 15 if not sooner.. So you Mr Isseicreekphilosophy.. aren’t you very close-minded or is that just something i read wrong in your long long long comments everywhere on here?
Agreed with Daniel btw. Thank God, you are here to tell us what is right and wrong, cause it seems that you are oh so smart
Eunseo,
Again you are missing the point – I am questioning if they are ‘choosing’ out of their *own* freewill without external influences. If you read the history of social oppression (like feminism, for instance), the popular culture targeting younger people follows exactly the same method, i.e. it makes it seem like it is their ‘natural place’ to be exploited. Some people seem to think they are not exploited, but seriously, all celebrities are. As I argued, it is a part of what it is to be a celebrity to be exploited – they sell their own images. However, I am criticizing here the society that allows 15 years old girls to be an object of exploitation. This is a considerably different issue from other socio-political problems like human trafficking and selling cocaines (as brought up by Daniel; by the way, your siding with Daniel doesn’t make you look smart – have you read his other responses? He’s all about vulgar talks). I am not in any comparing a popular culture to humanitarian issues like genocide and rape as weapon. If you compare, of course those things are MUCH muck worse than what I am criticizing about. But in the domain of feminism, socio-politico-cultural issues like the one I am talking about, AKB48 is a concern. I’ve talked to many parents (including Japanese parents who have daughters), and they all say ‘I wouldn’t want my daughters to be like them’ ‘ what are their parents thinking?’ – why is that? Because it’s just overtly an exploitation. And if you think I am telling you what is right and what is wrong, you are as stupid as Daniel and those who don’t think for themselves. I am suggesting that this is a social issue to be discussed about – I am not ‘telling’ you to agree or obey, as it were. I write my thoughts and arguments, and the rest is up to you guys; think for yourself. Don’t just instantly dismiss, but use your brain and think.
Of course they sell their image, they are celebrities that’s what they do.. they said yes to it and they also said yes to having that image. If they wanted then they are as free to say no as you and me. And thanks for calling me stupid, that just shows that you judge too fast, or is narrow-minded? (again that is a question) if AKB48 wants to run around in bikinis then peace with that.. You say you’ve talked to many parents that wouldn’t want their kids to be that way, then have you talked to the kids also? of course if you talk to the father then no way he would want to see his daughter in a bikini, but does that mean that the daughter doesn’t want to be seen in it? what about porn-stars parents? do you think they are proud of their kids? The children decide for them selves and when they are over the age of 15 they very well know what they say yes and no to. I don’t instantly dismiss what you say, but I’m also raised to say my opinion and oh yeah to use my brain everyday.
Thank you for your response. A couple of things first – I did not call you stupid (though I might have to), look carefully at what I wrote.
“if you think I am telling you what is right and what is wrong, you are as stupid as Daniel and those who don’t think for themselves.”
I said *if* you think I am telling you what is right and what is wrong. This was in response to your comment: “Agreed with Daniel btw. Thank God, you are here to tell us what is right and wrong, cause it seems that you are oh so smart” – here, you are showing that you agree with Daniel and reiterating what Daniel said with a paraphrase. This could mean either 1) you really think I am telling you what is right or what is wrong or 2) you are speaking not your mind with your voice but with Daniel’s voice, so if any unfavourable outcome should follow from saying this, you can actually say ‘oh, I was just agreeing with him, and repeated what he said.’ Besides, you said this last sentence in a sarcastic way to suggest that you are distancing yourself from the opinion you stated ‘…cause it seems that you are oh so smart’ clearly suggests NOT your opinion. So when such a sentence is attached to the preceding one, it’s ambiguous if you are actually saying what Daniel is saying or if you are just repeating for the sake of it what Daniel said. I was aware that it is possible that, unlike Daniel, you didn’t think I was actually telling what is right and what is wrong to impose upon you.
That said, if you actually did think I was telling you what is right and what is wrong, then yea, I was calling you stupid. But is that the case?
Now, I see we disagree on one thing: When a 15 year old agrees to do something, she is fully aware of the consequences or what it implies her to do.
This, I don’t think it’s *necessarily* the case – and especially when you are under 20 or so, apart from ‘consciousness’ or ‘intellect’, it’s really hard to determine what psychological impacts an action would have on you in the adult life. It’s not what we are telling them what is right, but by questioning this kind of culture, we are questioning if it is appropriate for the kids alone to make this kind of decision. This decision to be not a regular celebrity like singers or actors/actresses but someone who is to become more or less sexual objects for men in media – i.e. idol. When this is done individually, i.e. when you are by yourself training to be an actor or singer, it is more or less her or his own decision, but when this is done collectively, i.e. when the situation makes it ‘easier’ for them to enter into this business without having really given any thought, then there is a danger of loss of individuality, which is something any parents would consider a huge negative effect on children. So my view is that I don’t think it is ‘necessarily’ the case that all 15 year old girls know fully what they are getting into, and this could be a bad example for the younger generations who follow the suit.
But that’s a subclass of the problem I am talking about here. The real issue is that the more famous celebrities are, the more influence they have on social value – also the more people there are in a said group, the more authoritative they appear to be – this is a group consciousness. If you see someone jaywalking, you might think it not commendable, but if you see 10 people jaywalking, it makes you want to go with it and you jaywalk too. Police normally don’t stop a group jaywalkers while they would say a word to a single jaywalker, for instance. If done in group, a popular group, it gives an illusion that it is okay, or more, it is ‘right’. I am concerned about the influence these groups have on the other people who don’t necessarily want to be idols. Young people at school, who feel they are ashamed because they are not ‘pretty enough’ according to the standard set by popular culture. These are serious issues that could lead (and have led) to suicide and anxiety. It would affect their entire life style onwards. If this standard the popular culture is setting in society is, you think, a good one, then you don’t really say anything. But if this standard is actually setting a bad example, i.e. in this case, it’s telling young women to act/wear like them if they want to be popular – this is the subliminal and basic effect of all popular culture, and whoever say that it’s not true doesn’t understand what popular culture is about.
My view is that this is not only setting a bad example but also going beyond the previous popular culture’s already bad example. That’s why I am writing this. You speak about porn stars, I would have a huge problem if they start recruiting 15 year old girls, on basis that ‘they are fully aware what they are getting into’. Do you not have a problem? Again, legal age is an ambiguous concept – but I can agree with the society that anyone who has not graduated high school is too young to make that kind of decision. I am not talking about intellect – I am talking about life experience.
Just to point out, I said I talked the the parents who have 15 year old or younger daughters if they want to see their kids in bikinis (i didn’t talk to many fathers, though you seem to assume that I did), and you accused me for inconsistency and said that ‘what about porn stars’ parents? why are you ignoring that?’ But this is a different question – since by talking about porn stars, I presume you are referring to those who are legally autonomous, i.e. 18 years old or older, correct? I never criticized AKB48ers who are over 18 years old for wearing bikinis. I criticize them for setting a bad example, but not for wearing bikinis. If you want to be consistent, when I discussed what parents who have 15 year old girls who want to be AKB48 think about, you should also ask what parents who have 15 year old girl who want to be porn star at their age would think about. Otherwise you are changing the subject (called ‘straw argument’).
To sum up, my view again is that not all 15 year old girls you speak of necessarily ‘understand’ what their job implies. If you disagree and say that all of them are fully aware of what they do at the age of 15, then we have disagreement that cannot further be agreed. If that’s your opinion, I just respectfully disagree. But I can’t do anything about it – it’s your view point and you might be right. I’m not arguing with you there.
What a material of un-ambiguity and preserveness of precious experience regarding unexpected feelings.
Even as a female fan of AKB, I have to agree with some of the points here. To say that the producer has not exploited the “pure girl sexy” image is like being an ostrich that buries its head in the sand. However, songs are songs so they are not reality. On the one hand, you can still feel disgusted that underage girls are selling sexual fantasies. However, the messages of Seifuku and kuchi utsushii are not: it’s okay to be sexually reckless. It’s just depicting how young ppl are often curious and reckless about sex, which is totally opposite to society’s expectations. If you watch the videos closely, you definitely don’t get a jolly feeling. For kuchi utsushii, there’s a reason betty blue is chosen in the lyrics, her obsession has consumed and destroyed the whole relationship. If you listen to the 2nd part of the song, Kashiwagi’s singing is purposedly spirally out of control and different from her usual voice. Personally, it sends chills down my spine rather than getting this “wow, great lets have sex!” feeling. I think this is why the blogger, Claudia, loves this song, and that’s what she meant by the honesty of the lyrics.
For Seifuku, although the lyrics didn’t send out explicit warnings, Maeda walking alone in Shibuya(?) in the morning after at the end of the PV has already given the visual impact of loneliness and desperation. Throughout thw choreography you can see the girls keep turning back and look at the camera/audience. Out of all things, I think this song is blaming the hypocrisy of society in condemning these acts, while no one really extends a hand to these young people, who are craving for attention and explanation for these “dirty desires” locked up in their minds. Maybe because it’s such an unnerving and real song that it’s actually one of the least popular AKB singles among general fans in Japan.
Because these 2 songs are ones that I love dearly, I feel like I have to give my opinion on it and invite you for a second listen. That said, I’m not saying that Akb hasn’t exploited sex in a wrong way, but i just want to say that their popularity has more to do the things you pointed above, and the songs you chose may not be the best examples beyond the surface of the titles.
Dear Srking. Thank you for a very honest and constructive opinion. What you brought up here are very much appreciated. I’ve been looking for arguments like yours. And I must agree with you in that I chose songs that are more sexual and it is a point well taken that it’s not fair to take them as the representatives of the philosophy of the whole group. I do not disagree or criticize your reasoning for liking these songs. I think you have a good reason to like these songs.
That said, I still question the very last ‘smile’ of the girl walking in the morning – had it not been for that single image, I could possibly agree with your interpretation (although I still do not think it appropriate for them to make such ‘realistic’ image of the phenomenon when the PV is for any age group to see in public, that is, it’s not intended for philosophically minded audience). In popular culture, the targeted audience is the ‘mass’ in general. Some are intellectual enough to educe out ‘ethical’ meanings behind the art/performance, but generally pop culture icons are not made for educating the mass. Its sole purpose is to occupy people’s mind – e.g. by amusing them, by making them feel wanted/important, by making them feel happy, but not to make them think. In short, idols are there so people can idolize them. Although making them think can come as an incidental effect quite often, it’s not the sole purpose, nor its primary purpose. Capitalism plays a large part in this without question.
The advantage of popular culture is that it sells, because it is the ultimate pastime, an escape from the routine/harsh reality. It is necessary for psychological well-being of people. But as one group becomes more popular than others and comes to acquire ‘social power’ so to speak, I believe it is not only their responsibility but also a duty to set an example for the society. If AKB48 is a small group only popular among middle-aged rich men, as it once was, then although it is still perverted in its intention, it is not strong enough to affect social philosophy of set a standard for society. In such cases, I probably would not have embarked on criticizing them. As I have said elsewhere in my posts, I agree with John Stuart Mill’s argument that even establishments like strip clubs should be admitted to exist (for to abandoning it is to deprive freedom in a sense), but they should only be available to those who seek for them. (J.S. Mill, “On Utilitarianism”) Strip clubs should not be available publicly where everyone, anyone can see or have an access to them. In other words, they should not allure those who would not otherwise go to or get a job at strip clubs had it not been for their public visibility. Why? Specifically because its concept involves dubious ethical issues, and could develop in the audience ethical standards that are not commended.
AKB48 is similar to these strip clubs, if not the same. Perhaps, some people can educe out a meaning out of it – perhaps it is the purpose for life for someone, and perhaps it gives hope and courage to those who need it. But it should not become a social phenomenon. It should not be allowed and available to anyone on the ground that ‘it saves some people nonetheless.’ Again, AKB48’s intention is hardly to educate people, but to make money. Its ‘social benefit’ is only accidental and not essential. Such that its group must be criticized, however accidentally it may bring out some meaning. Because the bad it’s producing is far greater than the good it’s doing. On the surface, and in fact, they have done many things that are good for the society – like fundraising is one of them – but this is just a short term ‘material’ benefit. Sure, they could have raised so much money only because they became so popular. Thanks to their social power, their good deeds produced benefits no other groups could have made. But because of their good deeds, more people became fans and started to follow them. But all they see is what they do. Using young pretty faced girls who are submissive to male desire, never hiring anyone ‘ugly’ or men or old yet talented people, which I am sure there are many, what they do – what they show you everyday is the very central issue feminists have long fought for at least since 1960’s. (before, the issue was more of the equal rights for job opportunities; it was only after the late 60’s when feminists faced new problems, that is, sexism. Incidentally, that’s when NOW (National Organization for Women) was established of necessity.
In the 90’s and in the 21st century, people took for granted that feminists had won – that women are equal to men in society; in fact, they are so equal that they can run for the presidency, they can become lawyers and doctors. Nay, they can even dance around naked on TV with ‘their own will’. They can do that, because everyone knows sexism is bad, everyone knows women are equal. It’s ridiculous to say that women are inferior to men, or women can’t do anything. Precisely because it’s ridiculous, it’s okay to be sexists. It’s cool to portrait women as sexual objects, because we all know they are not. It’s just for entertainment, but in real life, we all know that women are respectable human beings, right? Thank Goodness that women have acquired equality with men that now they can bathe together almost naked in a music PV, thank goodness they can kiss each other on national in the name of equality! (this argument is a paraphrase of one of the prominent feminist writers in modern period Susan Dauglas who wrote ‘the rise of the enlightened sexism’.)
There is something wrong about this kind of reasoning. Is “Girls Gone Wild’ the victory women have wanted so badly and fought for for so many years? Is AKB48 not telling us that women should be pretty (and look alike)? Is not AKB48 telling us that only young women are needed and old ones are dismissible? Is AKB48 not telling us that girls should admire them and set them as role models and become thin, bathe together in bathtubs, kiss other girls and remain virgin while sexuality must be prided? Songs about their sexuality clearly express sexual curiosities of young women as you said, but they also demonstrate the double standards in male dominant society – that is, girls must be sexually curious but must not be sexually active. If, as you say, Seifuku ga Jama wo Suru is a song about condemning the society, and telling girls that they must not fall for compensated dating, this is what it comes down to. It’s creating the ‘perfect image’ of what women should be. It’s obvious also from their ‘Will you make a baby with me?’ program. Also to pick up the ‘best features’ from each girl and create a perfect girl model computer graphically, as happened last year this time. Why the need to create ‘the perfect’? Is it not for men’s pleasure? Like, clearly, making a baby program is not targeting women. Look, also, at the ‘rules’ that bind them. Girls are not to date anyone, and as soon as they are found out that they are dating, they get fired. What in the world has happened here? Has feminism done nothing? According to this principle, girls must not be sexually active. But according to many of the songs they produce, girls are sexually curious and hence they must be sexually active. In short, girls must be virgin but also love sex. In the midst of all these other things they are doing, I hardly believe what they are really singing about is to condemn society. Once again, the standard of beauty is controlled by men, and young girls who see this in society will come to believe that girls must be beautiful (and look alike) or they have no use for the society.
Independently seen, some songs that seem at first harmful may give rise to ethically meaningful statement, as you argued. But when looked at a whole picture, when looked at as if we looked at them 20 years from now, it is nothing but an enlightened sexism – that is, sexism that defies logic and escapes ethics. Its parts may occasionally do good, but its existence as a whole is doing a lot of harm to the psychology and morality of the people.
Dear Site owner (sorry, I’m not sure what to call you), Thanks for the quick and well thought out reply. Since this post is actually one year old, I didn’t think you will still respond to it so quickly, so thanks. Many arguments are laid out, so I’ll see if I can respond to them in a structured manner.
Just a last bit of discussion about the song itself. I’m aware of Maeda’s smile at the end, but again, I don’t interpret it the same way you do. It reminds me rather, of the movie “Harmful Insect (2001)” which also makes an impact as the girl encounters a series of events that led her to give up hope at the end by following a pimp/stranger away. Her face was also calm and satisfied instead of desperate, but that all the more magnifies the tragedy of the situation. It’s a face I’ll never forget. I think Maeda’s smile is on the similar vein. The point of the PV is not about whether girls should fall for compensated dating or casual sex, but it’s prompting the viewers to think why it happens in the first place. Otherwise, you won’t see the girls just wandering or sitting around in restaurants alone before the “action” happens. There’s a similar PV called “Keibetsu Shiteita Aijō” released around the same period (2008?), which also depicts school bullying and teenage suicide. Since the lyrics is more straight-forward, there’s little room for ambiguity about the message it sends. However, both songs are here to challenge viewers on expectations society set on teenage girls (including paradigms shaped by progressive movements such as gender equality), and the huge gap that exists between these expectations and reality. I’m just quoting that to illustrate that at some point at the beginning of AKB’s career, the producer does have an intention to send shocking messages through the sugary coating of underground idols.
Which leads to the second point about the “strip club” analogy. I think for the examples you raised (except Heavy Rotation), they matched your descriptions exactly. Kuchi Utsushii is a theater song, which is only performed in the group’s theater in Akihabara. It was also released before the group’s big break. So it’s not plugged on radio or promoted to the public. As for Seifuku, it’s also one of their earliest singles that didn’t even rank in their annual fan-selected best 100 setlist. Therefore, both songs meet the criteria of being made available only to those who have access to it. In other words, the songs are targetted at a certain subgroup, which you may argue is just middle-aged horny men (but I beg to differ on this generalization). I think it’s precisely because the producer Akimoto is aware that the group is starting to get big, shifting from underground idols to mainstream entertainers, that he started writing more straightforward and positive stuff like RIVER and Beginner, or pure pop entertainment numbers like Ponytail to Chouchou.
And then, for the rest of your points about sexism, I tend to agree with you that equality doesn’t mean it’s ok to flash your panties around for no reason on national TV. This is the thing I don’t like about AKB and find it disgusting that fans will just defend that without any independent thought or self criticism. Sometime between this post (when they have already become national phenomenon) and now, there’s a commercial where they just past around candies mouth-to-mouth. There’s no mistake of the sexual connotations here, but some people still decide to turn a blind eye to it and say male idols do that too. Yes, perhaps it’s true, but then I think that illustrates even more that sexism in our society does not only exist with the female sex only. Two wrongs does not make a right, and I also agree with posters above that doing a lot of good deeds does not cancel out the wrong that is committed.
This is why I never said anything about your criticism of Heavy Rotation PV. While I don’t think it’s soft porn, I can see why some view it as such. This has nothing to do with girls kissing girls on TV. In fact, even if it’s girls kissing guys on TV, the effect is just the same: it is sexual and serves no direct purpose to the song. Although I do accept arguments that the director might just be trying to depict girls having fun in private time. Personally for me, if that’s done in private, having baths together and playing with food the way they do is quite normal, but that’s only my view and I do think it can rub the wrong way with the general audience. Same with the “no dating rule”, which ties with the series of examples you cited above, and may I add, the dating-simulation games. This double-standard just needs to go, but at the same time, I’m hoping AKB can take us there.
This may sound quite ridiculous, but the recent scandal on Sasshihara Rino illustrates that perfectly. Some may argue that she’s just kept in the group due to contractual obligations and money, but then, the fact that management and fans alike are not abandoning her shows that the traditional image of pure but sexually curious idols is slowly being dismantled. Many fans now don’t care about their private lives and set realistic expectations on them. There are also many members in the group who’ve gone way past the age of being a traditional idol, but the fans chose to make them stay, defying the natural order of idol lifecycle. In fact, I view it as the reason AKB can become mainstream. The appeal of the group is definitely not what you mentioned: perfect clones of cute girls dancing in mindless routines just to satisfy the audience’s fantasies. Otherwise, they don’t need that many girls. The appeal I find is that there are so many girls, all of them different and none of them perfect,and we can see them grow and work towards their goals and dreams. At least, an illusion is created that we can have a say or influence what will happen next through various channels that encourage fan interaction, such as the much despised handshake events, single elections or Google+. I don’t agree that pop culture has no role to play in society except entertainment on the surface. I myself find motivation to work harder when I see my oshimen push herself to the limit to deliver the best they can. Even though part of me is cautious that this may be an act like reality TV, I can’t believe that EVERYTHING is an act, or that all girls are subjugated and exploited as victims unknowingly. Sometimes, education and influence is not that straightforward or one-way. To cite an example, the recent Shiga school bullying/suicide incident has prompted fans to voice out their desire for AKB to perform Keibetsu on TV again as a positive influence to raise awareness on this issue. It shows that fans do care and that they don’t exclude themselves from broader societal issues. If pop culture is really just to occupy the mass’ mind for pure entertainment, then we may have really reached a sad point in our civilization. I believe there’s a reason why only AKB made it big out of all others. If it’s just sex, it could be easily emulated by other groups.
To sum up, I believe that AKB and idol groups in general are walking a fine line between selling a sexual fantasy and being a cultural phenomenon that can do a lot of good (and entertainment). I agree that we must never forget all this is about money and not society’s well-being, but money is an indication that there is a market demand, which does not always equate to bad things. There is a market demand for approaching taboo issues that may otherwise not interest the public. There’s a demand for higher audience participation in entertainment. There’s also a demand for having control on things that you don’t really have it in real life (e.g. politics and elections in Japan vs AKB senbatsu elections). There’s a reason that pop culture is a mirror to society’s behavior so I think that instead of having a campaign against the whole (the concept of AKB), we should examine why the bad part (the sexual exploitation part) happens. When we do that, we will find that it’s rarely the root of the problem but the manifestation of it. Then we will wonder if it is really useful to campaign against it in the first place.
oh dear site owner, i agree with what you wrote here.
if people think you are exageratting, just ignore. people always have different thoughts, no need to debate with them. it will be endless!
Women…these girls start out in AKB48 when they are 11 or 12. Wake uo, people. This is softcore kiddie-porn. Google “Yasushi Akimoto.”
I don’t really think that it’s the girls who should be hated on or people scapegoating “yasushi akimoto” and wanting to blame him, in reality it falls on the parents it’s their responsibility. Apparently they let their kid be an idol, honestly I’ve seen much worse than akb. Hell the girls in the biniki’s and all that are 16-26 pretty much and I don’t see a real problem with that but then again when you have 11-13 year old’s sexting and posing like they’re playmate of the month. AKB doesn’t seem so bad. hell hello project was doing that “sexual exploitation of minors” some people like to call it before AKB48 was even created. Yet 9 times out of 10 all people ever do is attack AKB, if people hate AKB so much why are they so obsessed with it? I mean seriously it’s only logical if you hate something you want to be away from it and not think about it right? For example I hate rap/hip hop but I don’t start attacking it, and writing why it has no right to exist etc. I may hate it but they have the right to make music and do what they do, just like AKB does and any other entertainer really, to say otherwise is wrong. you have your opinion and i have mine, we can be civil about it or we can fight it’s up to the person but in the end there’s nothing people can really do about AKB short of terrorism and hate mongering really. now if religion is your reason for hating AKB you really need to get yourself a life and remember your religion isn’t suppose to be one of hate and control (i’m looking at your Christians and Muslims) cheers mates nice chatting with you all
Eric:
You are again missing the point. Have you ever considered what social influences groups like AKB48 are causing to teenagers? I suggest you look into it. I’ll respond to some of the questions you raised below.
*why attack AKB if you hate it? – because it’s not just a personal preference like ‘I like apples’ or ‘I love New Zealand’; in these cases, I have no reason to say or argue/attack anybody since it completely depends on that individual and in so far as his preference towards apples does not cause physical harm to others, it is not anyone’s business. Similarly, if I hate spiders, for instance, I would not read about spiders or explore into the mountains to look for them, but simply I would avoid places that may have spiders. However, if the reason for your hatred/dislike against something is not just a personal preference but a n ideological disagreement, then you should speak out. This is how changes are made and morals progress. By your reasoning, it seems if you don’t like/hate capital punishment, you should not talk about it but stay out of it. Sure, if you don’t like it “being imposed upon you”, then you should just avoid means to lead you to that punishment and just stay away from it. However, if you disagree ideologically with the concept or the social influence of the capital punishment, you should by all means oppose and learn about it so you can argue well. I don’t “just” dislike ABK48, in fact, I don’t care about them that much – that is, I don’t dislike them intrinsically. But I despise their concept and stance towards social ethics. And that’s why I criticize.
* They don’t have the right to make music and do whatever they do if they cause harm to others (social problems such as bullying or teenage prostitution, endorsement of sexism or anti-feminist views, etc). Sexting or things you object as examples are rooted in or harnessed in the standard the popular culture is setting. I am not criticizing AKB48 on the surface level. Or do you believe they have the right whatever the consequences?
*” AKB doesn’t seem so bad” – this does not get the AKB48 off the hook. It still remains a subject, like any other social issues, to be discussed about.
*”now if religion is your reason for hating AKB ” – no, it’s not. I really don’t see where you get this idea from.
One more thing, if you believe “it’s only logical if you hate something you want to be away from it and not think about it right?” but then, why are you writing a criticism to me? You here see clearly the first point I made about ‘ideological disagreement’ in your own example. Why not just say nothing about my article and why do you have the urge to say something at all if you hate/dislike my view point? It’s either, by your own reasoning, you are being illogical here or, as I suggest, this is a different kind of ‘dislike’ from how you don’t like rap music, for instance.
i think hacx summed it up perfectly mate you lost that round though you won’t admit it being a bit more humble would do you some good instead of requiring your say so to post comments kind feeds your ego?
Then again maybe you’re a really nice dude, this is just “my opinion” sorry i just don’t see your point in your reply sure you might have a lot of “education” but do you have any street smarts? my guess is probably not just a book worm that’s why you hold so stead fast to this ideal. yet I too have an ego that is fed citing where you’re wrong, though you’ll never admit cause you’re right i know. i’m sorry mate you can read all those “sexist” sorry i mean “feminist” books all you like but just reading books doesn’t mean you know something.
“They don’t have the right to make music and do whatever they do if they cause harm to others” i’m sorry again but they do, if you take their right away to make music, then you shouldn’t have the right to do what you want. people thought all the youth of america would turn bad cause of gangsta rap and hip hop (which is so heavy anti women/sexual) and yet here 20+ years later it hasn’t there are bad kids from it yeah, but really not as many as people thought, it’s the same with AKB48 they may influence teen girls but, then again AKB48 did not “force them” to do anything they did so it’s the individual’s responsibility to make their own choices. and there is nothing wrong with a girl exploring her sexuality just like there is nothing wrong with a boy doing it, the sad thing is it’s encouraged for boys to do it and if women do it they’re sluts, cheap etc.. double standards are bullshit really.
women/girls exploring their sexuality doesn’t make them bad people as you seem to think, sure there are some bad apples in the bunch but doesn’t mean they’re all rotten. boys and girls shouldn’t be having sex with everything in site, cause that does tend to lead to ruin but, exploring shouldn’t be a crime.
some of the girls in AKB worked their fingers to the bone, to get where they are it wasn’t just they showed some skin and they were instantly popular. (that’s k-pop you’re thinking about there bro) you may want to take their rights away to do what they love (which is wrong) but you should at least respect them for all the hard work they’ve done.
you do realize the all the Senbatsu members of AKB save one 19-26 right? so still arguing the underage thing kind falls apart now, and it has been my understanding that idols as young as 12-13 was common even in the days of Onyanko Club, probably even before, so my question is why not attack idols/j-pop as a whole instead of picking and choosing targets? you obviously have only looked at the “surface value” of what AKB48 is.
I like AKB48, some of them are damn cute and i like cute girls, and what guy doesn’t like girls they’re attracted to in bikinis? but I also like their music, and how hard they work to get where they are, I highly respect them but then again even though I despise lil wayne I respect all he’s accomplished.
“social ethics” I guess that falls into my onyako club comment but if i remember right Yamaguchi, momoe was doing things like then when she first became an idol in 1973 when she was 13 years old hmm.. so this isn’t just a new “problem” as you call it, it’s stretches as far back as at least 39 years ago aye?
“AKB doesn’t seem so bad” – this does not get the AKB48 off the hook. It still remains a subject, like any other social issues, to be discussed about.”
sure, they should be discussed about absolutely but not in the sense you are discussing them “They have no right make sing, and make music cause they could influence a “handful” of girls and that’s not acceptable!” though those “handful” of girls would’ve gotten influenced one way or another by something. it’s just easier to blame AKB instead of the “real” problems facing youths today.
*”now if religion is your reason for hating AKB ” – no, it’s not. I really don’t see where you get this idea from.
I was using this in a general sense, if say a Muslim or Christian hates them cause they’re religion says “women shouldn’t do that” that’s just crap cause women has as much right to express themselves and pursue what they want to do like men do.
I don’t hate you, at first I did, but that was just me being shrewd and childish, I just think you’re a bit mislead about a few things is all, hmm… i disagree with you so discussion becomes an option, and i would let people to see our discussions and decide for themselves what is right or wrong not what you tell them is wrong. you should to heart what hacx said bro cheers!
Eric,
It seems you are only looking at this one article of mine and criticizing that I only talk about AKB48 and not about others. Of course I am only talking about AKB48 in *this particular* article, because this article is about AKB48. For your information, I did criticize the idols in the 1970’s, so this takes care of your objections to my writings. https://isseicreekphilosophy.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/the-case-of-akb48-neo-virus/
Who said ‘handful’ of girls? I never said AKB48 affects “handful of girls” – though you seem to put them in quotation. I am saying AKB48 has an influence on the large population – as your talking about is the proof that it is reaching to English community. I am not just talking about a group that has some influence on a ‘handful of girls’.
Sure I probably don’t know anything about ‘street smart’ stuff, but that’s my point. This is a social issue, and it’s not something a street smart without being informed of ‘universals’ (as opposed to ‘particular knowledge’ that deals with practical, everyday knowledge) which deals with the theories and social implications in general could intelligibly unveil.
““They don’t have the right to make music and do whatever they do if they cause harm to others” i’m sorry again but they do, if you take their right away to make music, then you shouldn’t have the right to do what you want.” — I disagree with this, but I just need to ask, do you also think people have the right to do whatever they do even if they are doing harm to the others? Or is it just the music that can do harm and still be okay?
sadly as usual you did not address most of my points. You just chose the easy way out, it’s kinda funny though you’re treating AKB48 just like they did Elvis Presley, Ozzy Osbourne, Alice Cooper, Madonna etc.. when they were super famous lol and time has proven that “bad influence on minors” was for the most part bullshit. kids are smarter than people want to give them credit for. and yes they have the right to make and sing their music, i’m sorry but they do I’m a libertarian and i believe that they do without a doubt and can you prove that they or any of the sister groups are harmful? hmm didn’t think so it’s just going off of what “you” personally feel and think which is just bullshit i’m sorry but that’s the truth, if they don’t have the right to make their music cause of it doesn’t adhere to your moral ethics, then why should music you like? music is music it’s the “person” that makes the choices and is responsible for them blaming music and other celebs for such things is just a cop out.
“I disagree with this, but I just need to ask, do you also think people have the right to do whatever they do even if they are doing harm to the others? Or is it just the music that can do harm and still be okay?” like i said can you “prove” without a shadow of a doubt that AKB48 and idols in general are harming people? countless people have tried from Elvis to Lady gaga and so far they’ve failed to really prove anything, so again i call “bullshit”
pretty sure that if anyone would have an “influence” on girls i wouldn’t be AKB48, it’d be more like Lady Gaga, SNSD or KARA cause they’re far more famous than AKB is.
it’s too bad penn and teller don’t do their show anymore i think this topic would be perfect for bullshit.
yeah i can tell you only have “book Knowledge” something like this shouldn’t be looked at through a microscope like you do, you do a hell of a lot of “assuming” but present very little to no actual facts more than what you feel and think is right. so is that you insulting people with non books smarts? that’s rather cold bro, they’re every bit as smart as you are with all your “education” i think this social issue should be looked at for more than one view and clearly you don’t do that even after your discussion with ready2 back in feb. of this year. just cause you’ve gone to a university and done awesome in it doesn’t suddenly mean you know everything, experience and know how also helps, but, I guess getting anything more than a bachelors does tend to bring severe arrogance. I’m sure you’re a really nice bloke and we’d probably get along great if not for this simple yet intense disagreement cheers mate
It’s not that you’re out of touch with the japanese culture, as some are saying, but that you’re out of touch with the youth of the world. They’re young girls who are discovering their sexuality. It’s absolutely normal. What’s your problem with it? The fact that they’re singing about it?
The PV for Heavy Rotation isn’t nearly as dirty as you claim it to be. There’s really not a lot of skin showing, it’s not filmed in a way that highlights their naughty bits, and that part where you said “but what happens at 2:40 in is extremely explicit. One cannot help wondering how she has eaten her jello to get it on all over her face, as if her face is covered with sticky liquid”… she just has a little whipped cream on her nose, dude, and how it got there is explained at 2:58. The girls kissing each other is more like a peck, they’re not making out. Yes, there are girls in the bath together, but you can’t see anything, and there’s nothing sexual about the way the girls are behaving.
Yes, the video was directed by a woman. You should have spent more time on what she had to say about the video, instead of jumping straight to the “they used the woman as a puppet to convince the girls to make this dirty video”. What the director had to say was that she wanted to show “the REAL AKB48”, and what she saw was the girls goofing off in the dressing room, and decided to make a video like that.
As for mouth-to-mouth chocolate: yes the song is about a girl’s sexual fantasy. This is also a normal thing that girls do. I like the quote you cited where the blogger was saying the girl getting a stain on her uniform was like a stain on her innocence. This is a typical problem with young women: caught between the desire to explore their sexuality, and being afraid of ruining their purity, or people thinking she’s a slut, or something. Instead of trying to refute his argument in any way, though, you just said “he clearly has no education”. What the hell, man?
The third one, “the school uniform is getting in the way”, you said was about teen prostitution. At first I thought you were full of shit, and then i saw the ending, and now I agree with you, however, it’s not about how teen prostitution is okay and everyone should do it. The ending of that video is haunting and bleak, to say the least. It really creeped me out! This goes back to the quote by Akimoto you said above “what they are singing is not what they think but what seems to be happening around them”. Exactly. This is a satire of girls who are so free with their sexuality and engage in this behavior, and think everything will be okay. Well it’s not. That’s what the ending shows.
To recap, we’re sexual creatures. Young girls think about sex, and talk about it with their friends. That’s just reality, and it’s natural. Why can’t they sing about it? They aren’t promoting teen prostitution or anything like that, and though they’re using the attractiveness of the idols to market the group, they’re not exploiting them in any way. I think you need to open a dictionary and find out what exploitation means. If anything, they’re exploiting the sexuality of young boys to take their money.
This is how you seem to make your arguments: “I will make an assumption. I will pretend this assumption is fact, therefore, I’m right”. Either you’re old and old fashioned, and don’t like anyone behaving like the sexual creatures we are, or you’re just repressed and jealous. Reminds me of the apple in this sketch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuzosjD5O5M
thanks for reading 🙂
hacx,
If you really think these PVs have no problems and AKB48 has nothing to do with exploitation of sexuality, and girls’ bathing together in Heavy Rotation has nothing sexual about it (as if people would react in the same way if boys are bathing together; do you think people would say ‘well, but thats what boys do; they are behaving as usual’? unless you think girls are loving each other and bathing/sleeping together and completely innocent, happy creatures, like men fantasize them to be, I don’t think you can make an argument that they are just behaving the way they normally do), then there is nothing I can say to you. Whatever I say, you will turn it into what is not actually the case, and argue in support for AKB48 or simply for ‘enlightened sexism’ that is prevalent in the society. If what you argue is what you see, and you are convinced of it, then you need to be in touch with feminist philosophy, sociology, and social ethics/justice. i.e., John Stuart Mill, John Rawls, Simone de Beauvoir, Betty Friedman, Susan J. Douglas as well as other contemporary writers who discuss about social issues such as bullying and suicide could help. In sum, you need to be in touch with the issues at the substantial level to intelligibly talk about these problems – you can’t just argue away by *knowing* the surface level of the issue. Because then, it would not seem like an issue at all, which is what you are arguing.
In closing, I will just point you at my other recent article, and in particular, where I actually cite dictionary definitions of what ‘exploitation’ is. It makes me wonder if *you* have ever looked at it yourself.
“…Whatever their reasoning, I shall respond to them, once and for all, by citing dictionary definitions, Reference.com.[64] According to one of the most referenced online dictionary, ‘exploitation’ means “1) Use or utilization especially for profit, 2) selfish utilization, or 3) the combined, often varied, use of public relations and advertising techniques to promote a person, movie, product, etc…”[65] Does any of this sound like what popular culture does, AKB48 for instance? And not even one dictionary states that ‘exploitation’ has to do with stupidity or coercion. They can be accompanied qualities of persons being exploited but they are not essential for someone to be exploited.”
first of all….IT’S JAPAN….
second,,,IT’S AKIHABARA….
if you talk about japan woman especially in akiba nowadays it’s come to moe culture….akiba is place for moe, and AKB48 theater is in akiba….so I think nothing wrong with them…..FYI in japan bathing together is not something that shamefull, bathing together already become their culture…..so shut the f**k Up
The same back to you, Adito,
According to your logic, it is as follows: 1) Akihabara is a place for moe culture (sexualization of women), therefore 2) sexualization is allowed. Notice this is the same as saying 1) North Korea is a totalitarian government, therefore 2) people can be oppressed.
In short, your argument presupposes that the premise is right and should not be doubted. I disagree on this point. If Akihabara is a place that allows sexualization of girls, then I think people should try and fix it.
FYI, bathing together in Japan in onsen is normal, yes. But not in the way AKB girls are bathing together – that’s like saying the pillow fight among girls is popular and all girls do it in the West. What you are essentially saying is that “every guy’s fantasy actually exists.” How conceited are you?
it’s eerie isn’t it? like looking into a mirror, correct me if i’m wrong but how come your never replied to me? i thought we were having a nice healthy interesting debate?
I did reply to you, and if I didn’t to some of your postings, it’s because there was no argument I found worth replying to. But if you must know what I think of your comments, you said,
“i believe that they do without a doubt and can you prove that they or any of the sister groups are harmful? hmm didn’t think so it’s just going off of what “you” personally feel and think which is just bullshit i’m sorry but that’s the truth, if they don’t have the right to make their music cause of it doesn’t adhere to your moral ethics, then why should music you like? music is music it’s the “person” that makes the choices and is responsible for them blaming music and other celebs for such things is just a cop out.”
Here, you are answering your own question with your own pejorative responses. I have nothing to say to those who have already made up their minds before talking. Also, your argument sounds a lot like those pro-gun people who say ‘it’s the people and not the guns that kill people’. I simply disagree. Further, I am not talking about Elvis and Lady Gaga – and I am not equating AKB48 with them. If you don’t see the problem with the concept played out in Japanese idols in recent years, then you must be one of those who endorse whatever is popular just because it’s in fashion without any regard to ethical discourses. That is to say, there is something wrong with you.
You say things like ‘oh book knowledge is stupid’ but okay, if that’s what you think, fine. But that’s not what is at stake here and it’s not the subject we are here discussing, you are just saying that you do not have education and you only value ‘street smart’ kind of knowledge, which I am saying is not applicable to the issue at hand. So, by definition, whatever you say is not relevant as long as you stick to the ‘street smart’ argument. Unless, of course, you can define what street smart is, and draw connections with the AKB48 popularity with the street smartness. But you have not done that. So, at this point, I was not inclined to waste my time in responding to you for the issues that you would not probably listen to.
Anyways, your argument weighs too much on experiential knowledge (i.e. street smart) which deals only with the particulars. And we are speaking of this issue of AKB48 at the level of generality, i.e. publicly endorsed sexism, so really, what is it that experiential knowledge can offer here? It is essentially a subjective view point, and we are not arguing if we like AKB48 or not. If you like them, fine, but know that there is an ethical issue here. We are arguing if AKB48 is doing a society (not to you, per se) harm.
i just can’t even, i just feel disgusted that such a human even exists seriously you think guns kill people now? please tell me you’re joking i love you how insult me and treat me like i’m inferior to you, but if i call you a cock juggling thunder cunt you’ll make me off to be the bad guy, you seriously need to not only harden the fuck up but learn some things about the world instead of what your “text book” tells you, but like i’ve said you’re just a forceful asshole who probably has some mental defect or bipolar where you’re always right no matter what, i’ve tried to be nice and have a nice civil conversation with you but serious fuck you and the horse you rode in on bro, fuck you, and your whole family if they share the same views as you, it’s arrogant self centered people that are what’s wrong with this world not your holy crusade you’ll just disregard what i say like you’re some special person, but i pity you seriously and i just feel sorry for the joke you whole life is, as much as i love japan i’m glad i’m not japanese cause i wouldn’t want to be the same race as a stupid fucktard like you, i already have to put up with the stupid fucktards like you in my own race. it’s sad that gun man killed all those innocent kids instead of coming to your school and getting you, it’s what you deserve, i won’t be replying back here cause it’s a waste of time you gook mother fucker have your shitty life and i hope it’s all too short ciao chomo happy hunting lots of love 😉
hmm…I just dissagree with moe = sexualization…..
moe is one of japan culture, I think you just can’t say another country culture is wrong if you just see it from your perspection. and lot of japan woman love akb, so nothing wrong with that. Or maybe you just look from view of their PV and Lyric, but if you see their concert, documentary, and tv show you’re gonna understand AKB is not about SEX exploitation, It’s about struggle to realize their dream
Sure, my saying moe = sexualization is a bit misleading and somewhat oversimplifying. I don’t mean to say moe is sexualization but it is a form of sexism. Now, there are degrees of ‘moe’ – like say, people say K-ON! is a moe anime, and I don’t think K-ON! is a sexist anime at all. But, for instance, “moe-ness” that AKB48 is promoting, in fact, when ‘moe’ is expressed in real personnel, i.e. by actual girls in costumes, that is a imposition of sexism. But you must also know that the word “moe” itself is a sexist term. It’s a description of a feeling that men experience by looking at certain types of girls and behaviours as well as their looks. You do not say something is ‘moe’ when you are talking about, say, Dragon Ball or Hakuouki (which is a recent anime design dot appeal to girls). Now, as I’ve stated (as well as so many other feminist scholars and sociology in general), ‘sex appeal’ for female audience is in most cases different from sex appeal for male audience. Of courses there are instances, in explicit cases, they may be compatible with the sexist view usually criticized in society. But male views on young girls or women in general have a different status in society. This is a historical and sociological problem rather than a problem in itself. Even circumstantial, loosely put. That is to say, if our society is predominantly female, and female have biased views on men affecting men’s social roles in society to an extent that men are unequally judged and often assumes the social position of inferiority to women (for instance, men are not taken seriously just because they are men, or have less say on a subject in general than women or men more are physically abused by women and women are in a position to socially exploit men for their own benefit, etc…), that is to say, if the society is not only matriarchal but also women assumes a superiority due to the fact that they are women and men are deemed inferior or not worthy of attention an do so… then the situation is somewhat different. (in such a society, “moe” as we know it cannot exist – because this is a male fantasy, which necessarily assumes subjugation of women to men – I am talking about girls in costumes on the street and not K-ON! or these so called ‘moe’ anime)
Now again, I am not saying that there are no equivalent places for female. There undoubtedly is, but the issue has to do with the promotion of unbalanced view son gender roles the society condones. And Japanese societies have been particularly patriarchal and sexist towards women rather than towards men. Maid-cafes or AKB48 would not have come into existence had it not been for 1) men wanted them and 2) men in a societal term had power and social status enough to justify their claim that it is okay. I am not talking about specific lyrics only or any particular concert of AKB48 – these are just some parts of a larger picture. And parts themselves may not have significant harm at all – but when you look at this phenomenon in a context of social movement, there is something wrong with this. The existence of maid-cafes (or AKB48 cafes), the use of only young and cute girls, instead of someone who actually has talent for singing. AKB48 is the ultimate form of idols, in the sense that they require no skills or experience at all when they start. Yes, it is a “ikusei program”, people like to watch them grow and encourage them to do better. Again, in itself, that is, the desire for people to wish or watch others grow and succeed is completely normal, for instance, we like to see eager people and young people as well as old(er) people who have ambitions and set-goals. That is not the issue here. The issue is that this scope of people we watch is limited only to those girls of specific age, specific appearances and specific attitudes. And this is decided by male standard. The issue here is ultimately idols in general. So in a sense, my criticism applies to any unskilled talents who only maintain their jobs because of their looks or their attire. However, AKB48 is quite different from them in that it sells a much stronger and effective image of women as a whole as a submissive figure. For instance, Lady Gaga (as many of you have criticized) do not offer submissive, passive, shy, obedient figure to male authority, but AKB48 does. AKB48 expresses its sheer uniformity by the number of the girls in a group saying that ‘we, girls, are like this’ as opposed to any individual singers or a 5-people group idols. AKB48 appeals individuality only to those who enjoy them, but as a social phenomenon, as a large picture in the history of sexuality, it eradicates women as individual. Fans cannot see this, because they are too close to the subjects. They are not seeing the social and historical status of women in general. They are too much involved with the present, i.e. what Simone de Beauvoir calls ‘festivity’. Festivity is good, on occasion, as long as we recognize it as a festivity and deals it as such. But in Japanese culture and society, this festivity seems to represent to a lot of people that it s the undeniable fact of matter. They do not seem to see that festivity is a contingent activity of the ‘present’ only. It is a mere facade of what we fundamentally are. Like a festival, it is an act, and not the reality consistent throughout. The problem I talk about here is that AKB48 is confusing this festivity with the reality of what women are/should be. And this becomes a gender issue and root of the social problem.
I feel bad for those bashing the author.. What kind of life have you known
Sadly, these young and pretty japanese school girls are misguided.
You must be from the U.S. thinking cultures and people should behave in just one way, that your definition of sexuality, feminism and other social topics its the law and the world should behave accordingly. Do you even know the age of consent is different in several countries?
Live and let live… want to fight sexual exploitation? Great, but there truly horrible situations in other parts of the world and I don’t think this j-pop group is a particular case of concern.
i can tell you not all american’s think that way, i don’t however, this bloke has been in quebec too long, it’s kinda warped his mind last i’ve been told many times qubec is the worst part of north america racists, biggots, super sexists etc who feel they’re justified no matter what they do
Zach,
I was being sarcastic in my response. You are saying that this post is a reflection of ‘racists, boggots, super sexists, etc…’? Strange, I am writing about the sexism issue, and you somehow don’t find this post as against sexism. Besides, you don’t seem to understand attributing any characteristics to a geographical location makes no sense, and shows that you are as ignorant as those who say ‘americans are stupid’. And saying ‘I am not like that’ or any statement that says ‘others may be this way, but I am not’ is kind of saying that you exactly belong to the former group of people. It’s just like those who say ‘I know I am nice,’ it’s hard to trust someone who says about himself that *he* makes sense.
Anyways, stop making comments about the person who writes criticisms – but start responding to the arguments. What you guys are doing is called ‘ad hominem’ a technique often used to attack the person rather than the arguments because you can’t find a good counter-argument. Is that how you want to be taken as? If any of you makes a good point against my argument, I will respond accordingly, but if you just attack the person rather than the argument, I will respond with the same line of insult.
Not-Asian,
You must be from the U.S. thinking that anytime someone criticizes something you don’t understand, you attribute it to some dumb person living and never leaving the U.S. Check ‘About the Author’ before you let your imagination judge others.
What you say is said by many people (of ignorance, I think), that ‘there are other serious problems in the world; that this is not serious enough to discuss.’ etc… This type of thinking will never make any changes in social matters, since social problems will ALWAYS be ‘smaller’ problems than international crimes or war, human trafficking, etc… Just think about that before you actually respond.
from my standing point i d say AKB is obvious in what they are doing ,and to be honest i only view their vid once or twice ,just so that i know them,
and regarding your article ,hmm
where to start …
here “sex sell” this will remain true as long as humanity survive on this planet
ordinary ppl ,boys,girl have what is call lust,desire (off topic i talk to this random lesbian at bar recently “Do you having sex with any other than your partner ?
and she say yes reason she gave me is “just to satisfy her lust”)
you will have to enlighten every single soul on earth to achive what you have
in mind, i m not saying that the way you thinking is wrong just no matter how,
i think to get both gender to be respected,equaly social standing,
and not to be seen as sexual item
i can not find an answer for that , honestly
eat,sleep,sex,excrete is basic need and noone can touch them imo
and,heck i don t know why i post on your word press XD.
why the author doesnt want to understand that in ?Japan people have another different morality and culture and in there or in europe people under 18yo can have sexual life.
Because I am not a cultural relativist like you. I don’t automatically agree with whatever is happening in a specific region just because it is happening in that region. Hence, I do not agree with stoning women to death in the Middle East or genital mutilation practiced ‘culturally’ in Africa. Why don’t you understand that culture is not an excuse for doing whatever it is doing.
Further, how do *you* know that there *are* in fact multiple moral standards – so that in some part of the world, sexism is good, while other parts condemn it? Have you actually spoken to any Japanese persons at all?
Sorry,isseicreck…
But i didnt talk to you, i talk to youkyo..
You must stop investigate or search some news about them or trying to read everything about AKB48 or watch all of their MV only for search for the members profile… You are sick, you should stop fill your life with AKB48 all the time… you are sick, and pathetic.. You wont stop watch them, right? You even know everything bout them, what a biggest fan …
We should thank him and appreciate him as “the biggest fans of AKB48” and i think your explanation is the best source about AKB48 😀 Thank You! You even know member of HKT48, i think you should learn about them too, and SKE48,NMB48,HKT48,JKT48,SNH48,Nogizaka46.. We want more news dude!!! We should thank you too for reply us with tons of paragraph that we only tell you 8-15 words, you won’t tired and stop for us! thank you 😀
“the biggest fans” issecreck with youko 😀
i Hate You I Block You I Kick You *Sing With Heavy rotation song :p
You are so stupid… and pathetic. Can’t you use your brain and think and come up with an argument? Is complaining all you can do? People like you promote the idea that AKB fans are stupid and brainless. If AKB48 only has someone like you as a fan, they must be really stupid themselves.
Thanks for posting this, author. I sometimes look for articles about feminism the subtle sexualization of teenage girls (I suspect the reason why is because I am one and I have dealt with many problems arising from being in a fetishized age range and dehumanized by older men when they innappropriately hit on me when I was as young as 13). It’s a relief to know I’m not the only one that notices how the camera will sometimes linger slightly too long on a young woman in a music video,
And to anyone thinking “the author just hates them! How dare they hate these young girls for having a sexuality!’ I have this to say: the problem is not that these young girls have sexualities. Their sexualities are in fact irrelevant to their work. What they display is the sexuality that businessmen (likely middle-aged men) have trained them to display. It is men’s sexuality, projected onto women- just like a lot of mainstrem (Western and Japanese!) pornography. Some people just mistake men’s sexuality for the member’s authentic sexuality.
okay is 2018 now. most of the girls has “graduated”, moved on with other projects, living the life, lots of money to spend on designer crap. yes? anything else you like to add?